Can Virgil groove??

[beat Hit]

HODers... Can Virgil groove... [img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img]

I am pretty skeptical by nature, well, I remain skeptical until I come accross evidences leading me to a change of mind. I've had biases on Virgil. At least I can say that I did attend one of his clinic years ago, so my opinion was shaped by that event as well as other stuff, mainly Clinic Boot Legs and bits of Planet X.

That Lead me to write comments on HOD in the past that caused me to suffer the wrath of our Virgil Advocate [img]wink.gif[/img]

But seriously, thanks Digital for the heads up on this Joel Hoekstra CD The Moon is Falling. In it, I hear a disciplined Virgil playing within the context of what the music is calling for. Yep, he shuts up and lays it down solid. And I am impressed [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Impressed enough to let you guys know!!

Some awesome solo too, I love how he plays with the pulse, stretching and holding back. That's one aspect I love of Vinnie's solos. All his accent are so downright MEANINGFUL!! Only someone with a solid as a brick sense of Time can pull with confidence what Virgil does on that CD. And his 200 bpm double bass chops?? Barely heard any of it on that CD, if at all...

Here's some short samples...

http://www.joelhoekstra.com/samples/Euphoria.mp3

http://www.joelhoekstra.com/samples/...eDangerous.mp3

http://www.joelhoekstra.com/samples/Snoop.mp3

http://www.joelhoekstra.com/samples/...tAtParties.mp3

http://www.joelhoekstra.com/samples/Kaleidoscope.mp3

I am dying to hear virgil's interpretation of Swing playing standards, or hear him play ballads with brushes... I somehow sense that I may not be disappointed... Virgil's not only an awesome drummer, but a great musician too!! (I can't believe I wrote that... [img]wink.gif[/img] )

[McKenzie]

Glad you dug the disc BeatHit, I thought you would. It sheds alot of light on Virgil's abilities just beyond EXTREME drumming. His command of modulation is Amazing. He as you said really messes with the time pushing and pulling but it always grooves and enhances what the others are playing. I think Virg pretty much does what he wants to do when he chooses to do it. He just thrives on pushing the limits for the most part, but this disc and others show profiency beyond the Ultra complex drumming. By the way it looks like the Donati/Gambale/Fierabracci disc will be released
in July. You gotta grab that one. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Take it easy, Dig

[beat Hit]

Cool... How about Bunny Brunnel L.A. Zoo Revisited? I Just checked it out on AudiphileImports. Led Boots is on it and it KICKS!

[Vdrummer]

I played in a couple of bands with Joel Hoekstra, a jobbing band and a recording project. He's an awesome guitarist and a very funny, wacky guy. I played a track of Joel's generally unknown first record.

First, I dig Virgil quite a bit and sung his praises to many long before anyone knew of him. I met him first in 1994 at the NAMM show and he was very cool and seemed flattered someone recognized and thought he was amazing. So this isn't intended as a dig against him but is meant to clarify the recording situation.

I don't know how the third album (Moon) was done but on the second one, Virgil played to very minimal scratch guitar tracks, enough to let him know the tunes and form, and Joel and many other people added their final parts afterwards - so while Virgil played some great stuff, how it actually fit was determined by the other players overdubs complementing him, not him complementing the music. Economics primarily dictated this recording method. Joel lives in NYC now and the rough demos were sent to TJ Hemerich in LA for Virg and Rick Fierbracci to add their parts to.

BTW, Virgil did some other outstanding alternate solos that didn't make the disc.

Brad

[McKenzie]

The drumming and music in general on the Moon Is Falling compared to Undefined is quite abit different at times. I think there was alot more meat for Virgil to work with on the Moon recording. I know Premium members over at Virgil's site will get to see some of the Session highlights for the Moon Is Falling recording. I believe this is coming up fairly soon.

Dig

[Dazzler]

I am dying to hear virgil's interpretation of Swing playing standards, or hear him play ballads with brushes...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...... I'm not!!

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Vdrummer]

I think the recording methods for both discs were the same, once again due to economics, but Virgil may have taken a few more liberties on the new one as we all know he's quite apt to do. I sat in on some of the overdub sessions for the second disc and it was cool to be able to hear Virgil's tracks by themselves.

Dazzler, I agree about the brush and swing standards thing. It's not his bag, and that's fine by me. We all choose a musical path.

For those interested in the latest, "Moon" check out the next couple issues of Drum!

Brad

[palmerlouie]

which would you recommend i buy....Undefined or The moon is falling??

[peter c]

I'm one to believe that he
can do just about whatever
wants, if he puts his mind
to it. He's that gifted.

[img]cool.gif[/img]

[Vdrummer]

Skill-wise I totally agree with you Peter, but temperament, taste, restraint, vary widely and are a reflection of personality, etc.

I haven't heard any tune where Virgil chose to remain in the background. He very well may have, I've heard he's done pop gigs but I haven't heard that stuff. He's definitely and in-your-face type player. I find a great deal in his playing to inspire me to push my technique further but I think jazz requires one to choose their moments without controlling the situation. There's a lot more give than take.

It'd be nice to think Virgil has that in him, but he seems to be picking the Weckl path of playing in situations that allow him to do his thing most of the time. Vinnie, on the other hand does those choppy gigs, but also plays in situation where he has less of a say as to what he plays. Situations, sessions and gigs where he takes direction from others and sometimes just lays down a nice tasteful groove-ala Sting, Faith Hill and some of the Christian artists he records with.

In rock/fusion, especially progressive rock/fusion, that choppy thing is part and parcel of the genre. While it may be technically very challenging it may not challenge a drummers musicality to the same level.

In jazz, one has to have the disposition to listen quietly, often without offering much if it's not necessary. Plus, jazz obviously has a huge vocabulary that one has to immerse oneself in to play authentically. God knows, lots of critics and jazz drummers think Weckl, Steve Smith, etc., can't play real jazz. God knows Smith has immersed himself in the history of jazz but that's no guarantee of anything. Have you guys read the Jazz Times review of Steve's "Buddy's Buddies: Live at Ronnie Scott's" where they describe his and Baron Browne's "stilted Swing"? I think if Virgil took up jazz, he'd probably do it like more fusion-oriented drummers. That's fine, I suppose, but I think Virgil's fine doing what he knows and likes.

Personally, for real jazz my money is on people like Erskine, Stewart, Terri Lynn, Tain, and a thousand others.

My 2 cents. Actually, that was pretty long, so I guess it's more like a Quarter.

Brad

I haven't heard all of Moon yet, I have it but I've got other transcriptions which control my listening time. What I've heard it's more aggressive drumming-wise that Undefined. Depends on what you like. Both are good.